Japanese Options

[Lenyo]

Hey, I've been seriously considering it for a WHILE.

I've got tons of free time on my hand, I finish all my chores early in the morning, and I decided I want to start an intensive study on the Japanese language. And further delving into such matters later, I wish to learn to read Kanji.


I know we have a plethora of Japanese speaking people on this forum, and I don't know of any classes I can take in real life to help me learn Japanese, so could anybody here help give me tips, teach me the tricks and stuff, and help me out?

Thanks.

[Mizukithepanda]

Well, there really aren't any "tricks" that I can think of, honestly. There are tons of Japanese-language learning sites on the internet that offer intensive study, so if I were you, I'd check out some of those. One of the places I used to use was http://www.japanesepod101.com. They're pretty good and they do offer free lessons, though to get all of the pdf files and kanji-stuff you have to have a paid subscription, which kinda sucks. There are also places like http://www.jgram.org that list many different bits of Japanese grammar and explain them in short. I also know of an old (and slightly outdated) video series that teaches Japanese to English speakers. It's a little hard to find on the internet, but it works too.

[Lenyo]

Thanks Mizuki. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lalagrin.gif) I'll check those all out when I'm more awake tomorrow morning.

For the last little while, I've been mostly memorizing common phrases and their Kanji. I figure the best way to start is to have the basics, conjugation and a good knowledge of the common phrases.

[Celia]

You seem to be on the right track already, Len. The only tips/help I can think of right now would be...

If you want to know how to pronounce the words, search Japanese openings of anime on Youtube. It's a fairly good way of picking up the pronunciation. You can also look up subs for anime to start watching; some repeated phrases tend to stick. People who sub are often good at it. I've never found a sub that was off at least. It's as close as you're going to get to being in a conversation with a Japanese person at the moment. I'm sure you can find some honest, valid lessons on Youtube, as well.

Don't use online translators. Whatever you do. They steer you the wrong way and can't teach properly. Translators like google's or babblefish's especially.

----

As far as buying anything to help, you can get Japanese In Mangaland. It's very helpful. The first book alone (they have three, and two Kanji only ones) will teach you alot of what you need to know and basic phrases.

The first book gives you the hiragana and katakana syllabaries; and the difference and uses of the two. It explains things nicely. They introduce important, key words and how you can tell time or ask for it, and how you'd introduce yourself, address your family, etc, etc. Each lesson comes with a few manga examples. (Don't expect anything wellknown, like Naruto or Inuyasha. I totally dig the squid, though.)

There's 10 questions at the end of each lesson to mildly help you along.
In the back of the book, they have a table of "160 essential kanji" to move onto after you're done with the rest. (and an index on some of the words you've learned) The strokes are also important and they show you the order of that, too.

You can get it at your library, but if you find it good, I'd suggest buying it for your own since it's not something you can learn properly in a week.

[Mizukithepanda]

I do agree somewhat, but you really need to know what each word in the phrase means/does or it's useless. Like, say you know what, "I want to go to the bathroom," is, but you don't actually know what each individual word in the phrase, "Toire ni ikitai yo," does. Just knowing that "I want to go to the bathroom" is "Toire ni ikitai yo" does you nothing. Really, you need to know that "Toire" means "toilet", "ikitai" means "want to go" (and further that the base verb for "go" is "iku" and that "tai" is a verb ending that changes the meaning to "want to - "), "ni" is a particle that generally means in/into/in the direction of/etc, and "yo" is an additive that indicates emotion and generally makes the sentence sound a little less bland. You also need to know that sentences are generally in subject-object-verb format. (Like, if I were to write out the full, proper sentence for "I want to go to the bathroom", I'd actually write "Ore/Boku/Watashi wa -subject- toire ni -object- ikitai desu -verb- yo." In the shortened form, 'I', the subject, is understood as is the rather unnecessarily polite copula, 'desu'.)

EDIT: Celia, there are a ton of shitty subs out there and even the really good subs don't follow the script to the letter because it wouldn't make sense and would sound horribly engrishy. When it comes to watching subtitled anime to better your Japanese, I suggest waiting until you have a decent grasp of Japanese grammar and can actually compare what you're hearing to what you're reading.

EDIT 2: Oh yeah, and I forgot... there's also this program, Wakan, which is a Japanese/Chinese translator, editor, and dictionary. It's an invaluable tool as it lets you type in hiragana, katakana, and kanji among other things. It definitely helps when you're learning on computer rather than paper.

[Celia]

I do completely agree. There wasn't anything more than the book I could suggest that would teach him that, though. I didn't bother with online sources for that factor, because I've gotten the book for my birthday before I had to. There was this one site, but I couldn't remember it's name. It was pretty handy, though.

I did want to make sure I was pronouncing things right, so Youtube was just that. The book gave good examples, but audio and listening was important, too.


EDIT: Hmm, I guess I should've pointed that out. I've already had a grasp on how things were when I've begun watching them.
I remember my earlier days of hearing 'Ohayo!' and knowing "Oh, yeah, that's 'Morning!'"
It's mostly about pronouncing your words than anything when watching the stuff. Knowing your 'ka's and ku's and 'tsu's. Taking a sentence you know like "I love bagels" and then hearing it to confirm how you're saying it. And taking account of male/female roles, etc. Like how guys and girls generally pronounce "Ohayo" in a different way.

I've mostly listened to openings. But you also have to keep in mind, that in music they do similar things like us. Like how we might slur/breathe our words or something. You need to look into that before, too. They're mostly good as far as openings/endings, though. :D

[Mizukithepanda]

It definitely is, Celia, which is why I recommended that first site. All of their lessons are audio lessons. :)

I do agree with your recommendation of listening to karaoke'd anime openings/endings though. The translation on those doesn't matter as long as you can read the actual Japanese lyrics along with what you're hearing. And it really does help you distinguish what you're hearing and how to pronounce it.

[James]

I used to have an AWESOME copy of a learning program.. I lost it though when my laptop crashed ;(

[Rumiko]

Hello~

I studied japanese for.....4 years now :3 and I can say I now a decent amount now (enough to get myself out of bad news bears :3)

anyway~
what I recomend you first....before learning Kanji........Hiragana and Katakana.....if you don't know them you will fail...completly ~ Kanji are important too....but the whole grammar is written with Hiragana~ so learn this first :3

use this site :3 for hiragana I recomend

here you have games to learn them
Kana 1
Kana 2

hmm if you know them already~ it's fine....

for general learning Nihongo e naa

what else can I say~ hm I used "Minna no Nihongo" it has a book to practice and one that explains the grammar :3 I'm not overly fond of it...but it's ok~
but to see if you really get along with japanese, the internet might be enough at first :3 beacuse books are expensive~
so, browse the site~ you might find lot's of helpful stuff~

and if you are unsure about the pronouciation and the internet doesn't help~ we can always set up a date via skype and I can check ;-)
this goes for all questions you might have about grammar~ just drop a pm and ask~


by the way, if you get serious with japanese I recomend " A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" from Seiichi Makino and Michio Tsutsui~ but only buy this if you are serious :3

[Calliope]

Well, I've never really tried learning Japanese but for awhile now I've been teaching myself a few foreign languages. There aren't exactly any "tips or tricks" and it depends on things like how dedicated you are to learning the language.

Familiarizing yourself with pronunciation, accents (if there are any) and generally how words would sound in everyday conversations will help you. I'm learning Russian right now and sometimes there are certain letters/syllables that sound different when stressed/unstressed (for example, O can sound like "oh" or "ah"). Listen to things like radio talk shows and videos with audio in Japanese, you'll pick up a few words as you progress in learning the language.

Don't limit your resources to just one thing. There are a ton of websites out there that can help you as well as a ton of books. You can even try talking to a native speaker. There's this website called Livemocha.com in which you can communicate with people who are willing to help.

GuidetoJapanese.org is pretty useful and includes audio as well as video files that show the stroke order (if you're learning how to write).

Also, patience is important. Learning languages can be frustrating sometimes but there's no need to rush. Don't learn too many things in one day; you'll easily forget everything you just learned.

People have different ways of learning and along the way you'll find yourself saying "I don't think I'm getting any of this." Don't give up, there are many ways of approaching lessons so it's up to you to see what you're more comfortable with.

[Rumiko]

the thing about patience is true~

like for japanese? it can get really really frustrating (4 years .....daaah) but everyones learning ability is different~ so sometimes it seems you make no progress at all~ but then! bamm! you make a big jump foreward :3

also another important thing about japanese. many people say japanese is really difficult~ this is not mainly because of the kanji or grammar......the most difficult thing is the cultural context.

talking in japanese depends on the circumstances. with whom, where, when, about what, your social position.....this is all really important...and thats what will knot your brain up ._.

:P but don't give up! it's a wonderfull language

[Suiko]

Haha I have relatives and friends from all over the place and I really want to learn a lot of languages. I'd probably learn French, Italian and Spanish before getting to Japanese but to be honest I doubt I'd ever get to do either

Sometimes I wish you could have that thing in the Matrix where you just download languages into your brain. Either that or have sleep learning actually work properly, that would be pretty cool unless you wound up like Dexter and could only say say one phrase for the rest of your life (or that particular episode).

Omelette Du Fromage. Omelette Du Fromage. Omelette Du Fromage.

[Calliope]

Hah, I remember that episode. It was kinda cheesy.
[/incrediblylamepun]

Yeah, it would be nice to be able to just download languages to your head. By now I would have been fluent in almost every language if that were possible. D:

I agree with Rumiko, though. Every language is fascinating in their own way but it takes dedication and persistent determination to learn a foreign language. If you feel that you're stuck in something, take a break from it but don't give up. You can definitely find a ton of people who are willing to help here and around the web (like this Japanese Language Help forum, which is also quite a good resource with reviews on Japanese instructional sites and whatnot).

[Saffy]

Back in high school I was using the site http://japanese.about.com/ in addition to a handbook I picked up. Whenever I had a free moment at school, I would go through the handbook and take notes. I felt I was making progress with grammar at least.

To properly learn Japanese, I would suggest a better a learning environment. Sure, it's great to learn Japanese on your own, but taking a class and having someone help you along is much better!

How serious are you about learning? Is it something just for fun? Would you consider Japanese immersion?

[Noviwan]

I may look into this as well I am torn between going into the Japanese language or re learning some more Spanish.

[Rumiko]

Noviwan~

how far is your spanish level? If you already on a good tryk, I would recommend to get your spanish on a decend level, before you start learning japanese :3

I wanted to study swedish for two years now~ but I put it off, because at first I wanted to concentrate on my japanese :3 now my japanese is alright.....so I can start with swedish~

don't overload yourself with too much languages okay?

[Noviwan]

Noviwan~

how far is your spanish level? If you already on a good tryk, I would recommend to get your spanish on a decend level, before you start learning japanese :3

I wanted to study swedish for two years now~ but I put it off, because at first I wanted to concentrate on my japanese :3 now my japanese is alright.....so I can start with swedish~

don't overload yourself with too much languages okay?

Yeah I probably should I plan on taking spanish when I go back to university. I would still say that I am a beginner since I have forgotten a great amount. I will brush up on it.

[Rumiko]

Do this first :3 when you are more confident in you spanish skills, start with the next language (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lalaexdee.gif)

For now I will work on english, japanese and a little wittle bit on swedish~

[Noviwan]

Voy a practicar el espanol

I am going to Practice Spanish

I need to learn how to put in special characters with the Tildes

[Lenyo]

Waah, I wake up and there are a buncha text mountains.


Thanks, everyone, for all the advice and the recommendations. I intend to study different parts at least once a day for a few hours until school starts. I'm currently working on memorizing the Hiragana alphabet, and pronunciation.

From the anime I've watched in my life, I've learned a few words, but not actually LEARNED them. Like, I used to think "go-men-oh-sai" was like, sorry, but I didn't know how to spell it at all. So I'm learning the romanji spellings for common phrases (doing this helps me remember the words in Japanese, so I can speak them. I know it won't really help me read.), trying to memorize the Hiragana alphabet, and that's about all I'm studying for now until I get better at other things.

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate your advice, and

Rumiko: Since you know English so well, and it isn't even your first language, I have a feeling your help will be very useful.