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[Kozunai]

Did it ever occur to you that I was playing the game from behind the scenes? Just because I didn't send in moves doesn't mean I'm not playing. and while I was gone, did any of my land get wiped out? If you had told us when moves were due each time, then I would have been able to send in my moves on time. You told us once when our moves were due, and that was for the opening round.

And I'm not the only one who has been wrongfully denied moves. You should really learn to post ALL THE RULES at the beginning and not make rules up halfway through the game.

Now I'm sorry for everyone playing, but if this unfairness continues, I will be forced to shut this game down.

[Lindstrom]

The biggest problem is that the official rules aren't very clear about situations like this. The closest thing I can find in the book to our situation would be what I went with, in that bounced units (equal strength movements) always always always keep a chain of movement from proceeding, whether they are friend of foe. It's debatable, cuz how does a spent army have the strength to make people head back? The rules argue that there is no real distinction between friend and foe units in terms of moving (that is, you can have your own guys bounce off the same region if you wrote to have them both enter it at the same time). However, when figuring out a "chain" situation where units are trying to move into a soon-to-be-empty region, you always always always have to start with the front of the chain so you know if there are any collisions that impede the whole thing from moving.

How are you playing if you're not sending in your moves? Sending in your moves is the whole point. Also, this game's rulebook is a 24 page PDF file which is vague in a number of areas. A situation like Has and GS's is niche and isn't even covered. Last time I put up a majority of the rules, many people posted that they wouldn't play on the grounds that it looked too confusing. Honestly, I prefer having so many people involved and still having issues as opposed to only getting like 3 players, because at least this way more people are learning the game.

[Kozunai]

The biggest problem is that the official rules aren't very clear about situations like this. The closest thing I can find in the book to our situation would be what I went with, in that bounced units (equal strength movements) always always always keep a chain of movement from proceeding, whether they are friend of foe. It's debatable, cuz how does a spent army have the strength to make people head back? The rules argue that there is no real distinction between friend and foe units in terms of moving (that is, you can have your own guys bounce off the same region if you wrote to have them both enter it at the same time). However, when figuring out a "chain" situation where units are trying to move into a soon-to-be-empty region, you always always always have to start with the front of the chain so you know if there are any collisions that impede the whole thing from moving.

How are you playing if you're not sending in your moves? Sending in your moves is the whole point.

Holding is also a move is it not? And quite frankly I have been pretty active since I came back. And you still act like I'm not even here. When I don't even get the heads up about when moves are due.

[Hasfusel]

How do you decide the front of the chain? I always saw it as all the moves happening at the same time; I.e. Lake would be both defending against Highlands and trying to win Cliffs at the same time.
I think either go with this precedent, keeping the rules for attacking as I said. I reckon this makes the most sense. This would result in Gold Lake being forced to hold, as it could not both attack Gold Fields, which it would not have moved into anyway, and defend against Gold Highland.

If this is rejected, make me take Lake with Highlands, and make Lake to go Frontier. It feels a little unfair to have this outcome since I effectively have outweighed Lake and instead he's the one ending up with a supply center, but it makes more sense than him just moving back from Fields to Lake despite Highlands having attacked, so if you go with this, bad luck to me and I won't complain.

With regards to Kozunai, if we could just accept his moves and go from there it'd be probably for the best.
And there should be no problem with accepting Calliope's revised moves, which were sent entirely legitimately.

[Guitar Smasher]

How do you decide the front of the chain?
I think either go with the precedent, with the rules for attacking as I said. I reckon this makes the most sense.
If this is rejected, make me take Lake with Highland, and make Lake to go Frontier. It feels a little unfair to have this outcome since I effectively have outweighed Lake and instead he's the one ending up with a supply center, but it makes more sense than him just moving back from Fields to Lake despite Highlands having attacked, so if you go with this, bad luck to me and I won't complain.

I'm glad you're being reasonable. We both realize the futility in simply ruling on this move without agreeing to the standards going forward.

With regards to Kozunai, if we could just accept his moves and go from there it'd be probably for the best.

While it likely doesn't affect me, I don't think this is fair. Koz has been able to see the moves of the other players so he has a distinct advantage into what he chooses to do.

And there should be no problem with accepting Calliope's revised moves, which were sent entirely legitimately.

Now this is less controversial than Koz's situation, but again I don't think it's fair that Calliope potentially has two sets of moves to choose from. Regardless of whether she made her intentions clear, if we rule in her favour she is getting to choose her outcome. I doubt she would have brought it up if she didn't prefer the outcome over what she sees now.

I don't blame her. This situation is the result of either an innocent error on Lindstrom's part, or Calliope's failure to convey her intentions before Lindstrom started his analysis.

[Hasfusel]

She specifically said before the turn ended which moves she wanted, so had the turn gone according to plan they would have happened anyway. The fact that she could have chosen to ignore Lindstrom's accidental error is irrelevant, I think. Especially considering that this current outcome seems most in her favour, actually.

[Lindstrom]

If that's how you want it to go, then so it shall be, and so future moves shall be. To be honest, I expected you to go for an all out offensive on GS and guard Frontier too.

I'll go through the map and edit things as needed, but understand I don't hold the game up for people.

[Lindstrom]

(IMG:http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/MagicPants/red002x-1.png)

Revised unit changes:
Talrante - add 1 unit
Darkwood - add 1 unit
Gold Kingdom - add 1 unit
Volkan - no new units
Kuni no Mizu - no new units
Grassland Kingdom - remove 3 units and retreat Middle Sea if kept

[Hasfusel]

This was my all out offensive, but if the rules had been what I anticipated, I would not have needed a unit in Gold Frontier this turn, but I would have taken Gold Fields. It was better for me and Lenyo if I was the one to take the extra unit from Tomato; although this now makes it evident to Calliope and GS that Lenyo and I are working together, I doubt the information will help them, if they hadn't figured it out already.

EDIT: Thank you for updating the map.
I'll have a new infantry unit in Lantern Marshes.

Sucks to be you, Toaster. I don't know what you were thinking with those moves, eh? Separating your army and everything?

[Lenyo]

And I would still like my infantry in Persis, please. Thanks for updating the map, Lind.

[Toaster Boy]

Sucks to be you, Toaster. I don't know what you were thinking with those moves, eh? Separating your army and everything?

It really doesn't make a difference.

Get rid of all but GC.

[Hasfusel]

I was honestly surprised that you fell for it so easily. Then again, I guess you weren't counting on needing to watch your back against Lenyo. If he'd just kept up supporting you as planned, sending a unit to stir up Kozunai could have been a good idea.
But I bet you knew it was coming but just couldn't be bothered to carry on with the game, right?

Also, rather than removing Grand Chekmah, you're actually in deficit of three units and will need to remove two others. Yes, you've got one unit left. I'd call it a day and just leave someone in Ano.

Well, if we do another of these games, you will likely know better than to let me lead your moves, especially in situations like this. Anyway, well played and stuff.

[Toaster Boy]

I was honestly surprised that you fell for it so easily. Then again, I guess you weren't counting on needing to watch your back against Lenyo. If he'd just kept up supporting you as planned, sending a unit to stir up Kozunai could have been a good idea.
But I bet you knew it was coming but just couldn't be bothered to carry on with the game, right?

Once I saw Lenyo moving in on me and me not being able to much against it I just said screw it. Honestly, even if beforehand I wouldn't have been able to do squat because I'm a middle country and have the surrounding players against me. It would've been a mass of a long shot.

[Guitar Smasher]

...know better than to let me lead your moves...

I just want to emphasize this quote to everyone.

[Hasfusel]

I just want to emphasize this quote to everyone.

Note that all the moves and advice I gave him were good moves, from the beginning. However, I countered their effectiveness by letting Koz in on the plan at certain crucial points. For example, moving to Middle Sea would have been excellent, if only Koz had tried to attack it himself and hadn't been forewarned. The Elsinore to Grand Chekmah thing could also have been effective; but, a little nod to Lenyo that Elsinore would be empty and he'd have two infantry units left at home, and my job was done.

Whether Lenyo stays with me is yet to be seen. I trust that he'd notice if any of the moves I suggested him were going to put him in a compromising position.

[Guitar Smasher]

Note that all the moves and advice I gave him were good moves, from the beginning. However, I countered their effectiveness by letting Koz in on the plan at certain crucial points.

So they weren't good moves at all!

Whether Lenyo stays with me is yet to be seen. I trust that he'd notice if any of the moves I suggested him were going to put him in a compromising position.

Yeah, trust...

...know better than to let me lead your moves...

[Lenyo]

The way I see it, this is a game played by people to win. If siding with someone like Has' assures I wouldn't have to worry about him attacking me and I could take all of Toast's country, then like helk I will take that move. For now? Who knows what help I need?

[Hasfusel]

Sorry if it wasn't clear. What I meant is, all the advice I sent Toaster was strategically sound and he did well by listening. However, he didn't know that I was keeping him from doing too well with them by ensuring that Koz and later Lenyo would be a step ahead.
My plan was rather risky, though, and in hindsight I've been lucky; I always knew there was a strong chance that he could have noticed how unlikely it was for Kozunai not to have attacked Middle Sea, and the Elsinore maneuvre thing with Lenyo could also have gone wrong.

And the other thing was that I reckon Lenyo's intelligent enough to notice if the advice I sent was ultimately designed to catch him out; besides, our allegiance is good and probably necessary for both of us.

I doubt any of this information will help you, but yeah

Lind, how long do we have left to give moves in?

[Toaster Boy]

To be true, should the alliance have held, those moves would have been devastating.

[Calliope]

I believe I've gained one unit from taking Partagase. I might be wrong but an infantry unit in Ostara would be nice.